Counter-InitiationwithCharles Upton

Books Mentioned In This Interview

Charles Upton’s first books of poetry were published in 1968 and 1969 by Lawrence Ferlinghetti of City Light Books in San Francisco. He was then considered the youngest member of the “beat generation” as he was still in high school. He has subsequently written many books associated with the traditionalist school of spirituality including The Science of the Greater Jihad, System of the Antichrist, Vectors of the Counter-Initiation, Folk Metaphysics, and Alien Disclosure Deception: The Metaphysics of Social Engineering. His website is

Here he notes that René Guénon wrote about several types of initiation that deviate from authenticity: anti-initiation (i.e., materialism), pseudo-initiation (i.e., fantasy), and counter-initiation (i.e., potentially, if not actually, evil). He proposes that counter-initiation is the ultimate conspiracy theory – the conspiracy behind all other harmful conspiracies. He provide a number of examples, including Satanism, UFO cults, and Aztec ritual sacrifice. He argues that Sufism, when removed from its essential Islamic context – as well as other efforts to form universal religions – may be approaching counter-initiation.

(Recorded on April 30, 2022)

For a complete, updated alphabetical list of our guests with links to all of our videos, and all guests’ websites, see

To order Vectors of the Counter-Initiation by Charles Upton, see

Published on May 18, 2022


We do not yet have transcripts available for this interview.

If you are be interested in helping us transcribe into any language, including English, please email